Thanks for let us playing your game, there are really great stuff in there, I have a couple of feedbacks:
1. Obviously the puzzles are just first draft of ideas and are unpolished and I'm sure that you are aware of it but since it is really important I mention it again that the levels shouldn't be in a way that a tiny mistake would cost you to use retry button. for example the structure of the rotating doors are is a way that would easily make you left behind the door even with the magnet in hand and of course if you lose the magnet in some part of the level then most likely you have to reset the level. there are for sure a couple of solutions for this and I'm sure you will find the best one for each level.
2. this one isn't critical but I think finishing the level by finding the key is a little bit anticlimactic because you would expect to use the key in the level itself not using it in the hub area.
3. if the hub area is going to be like this in the actual game I would expect to use r2 to sprint for better feeling at navigation.
4. I understand why you choose the approach that for opening the doors in the hub player needs to use the magnet but I think it is annoying and I don't like it.
5. I like that the level are designed in a way that you don't need to use timing or accuracy for throwing the magnet and I think it is really important to keep it that way through the rest of the game.
6. the above point should be the case for platforming as well. for example I don't know why the gap in the last level (between the magnetic field) is in a way that it is hard to jump from side to side.
Hey, overall a great gaming experience, the graphics look great and with sound it's sure to be twice as good. The puzzles are a bit simple at times but it feels pretty good to complete them.
I think my comments are focused on the technical aspect and even they are details that are not polished because it is a demo, but I think that saying them out loud will help to take into account those small details while the final version is being developed.
- in hub the reload icon grow indefinitely when pressing the reload key.
- The aim goes behind some element (hub doors as example), i think it should be always in front of all other elements (stoping in walls and collision objects of course).
- option 'show icons on magnets and fields' only applied to magnet not fo the icons flowing in the magnetic zones
- if the game is already set in fullscreen, when exit the game and start again it will start in fullscreen and the 'fullscreen' button will toggle to window instead of fullscreen.
- You can pass the magnet through the area without magnets if:
1. you leave the magnet just on the outer edge of the area without magnets.
2. You put the character right on the inner edge of the area without magnets.
3. Take the magnet and throw it as fast as possible before the zone makes it disappear.
- From a personal point of view I feel that the design of the tubes is a bit out of place with the industrial/metallic environment, maybe metal tubes would be more in line.
- The character moves well but I think that the possibility of "running" would improve the experience, especially when you get stuck in a level and have to do everything again.
The game felt very responsive! All the little effects, particles, feedback (like the arrow when we are close enough to pick up the magnet) makes the game feel very intuitive.
My only critic on your design are the ramps: they looked too much like shadows and I often forgot they were there, assuming they were steps. Why not take away the steps where there are ramps, are have the ramps in a clearer colour?
Also why has - what I call the magnet destroyer - a red smiler face? At the beginning, I thought it only destroyed the positive/red magnet. I thought that was a bit confusing.
Apart from those tiny details, the levels were good! The environment is simple enough for the solution to be clear when I did find them. The last two levels were particularly great and got me scratching my head. Your mechanics are so cool I was starting to imagine levels for your game myself. You can watch my walkthrough here for my full reactions:
While I am at it, thank you for your work on your YouTube channel: it got me to appreciate games on such a higher level!
Nice game. There's definitely the beginning of something here. The parallax effect with the background in the level hub feels a bit weird.
In the puzzle levels, the background feels like it's a "wall", like it's physically stuck to the platform bits and you're moving in a small room.
Having the background look exactly the same but behave differently in the hub feels just weird. Also, it makes the doors feels less like doors in the wall and more like magic video game portals. (since they're not anchored in anything)
Otherwise, nice game, good game feel, okay puzzles. Most of them took me two "tries" before I figured out the solution, there was no puzzle where I just blasted through without thinking.
The new character design is so nice! Just moving around and jumping felt good, I had a fun time just zooming around in the "Thanks for playing" room. One thing that might be nice to incorporate in the future is a sprint button, something such as holding down shift to activate a faster movement speed.
This demo evoked the feeling of a puzzle game well. There were quite a few moments where I entered a room and was just feeling "what". I enjoyed experimenting with what did and didn't work. One thing I found a problem with was how often I had to reset a room because I became soft-locked. It did remind me a bit of Baba is You in that regard though.
There was one room in which you had to throw the magnet through a bar, I felt that the bar was designed in a way that looked impassable and so was a bit confused why the magnet could be tossed over.
Overall this was fun to play! Thank you for your hard work!!
The characters and levels have a good feel. Something very satisfying about the way the robots' wheel turns, especially when he's on hanging from his magnet.
I really enjoyed the last two levels. They were frustrating at first but it was very fun to have that sudden realisation that makes the whole thing come together and allows you to sail back to get the key.
When you do bring in sound design etc, it will be important to make it very satisfying to pick up a key (in the same way that its satisfying to get an item from a chest in Ocarania of Time) as the player sometimes has to work quite hard to get it.
I had two main challenges.
Number 1 - At first, I kept throwing the magnet when I meant to pick it up, for some reason I just hold down the E key to pick up the magnet. I then find that I'm in the throwing mechanic, and there doesn't seem to be a way to cancel out of that.
Number 2 - There were lots of times when I had to restart a level because I was stuck. This didn't feel too bad as the levels are quite short. That meant it didn't feel like a drag to get back to where I was. Would be more of a problem if it happened on a longer level, though.
Very nice game, great feel and cool levels. Some things to note:
One, with the doors the open switch sides when you get close, if you the instantly change your direction, the gate doesn't register that and you need to go back and then return for it to work.
Two, in levels 5 and 6, if you get stuck, by falling to a hole or just opening the screws in a different order, you can't easily go back and you have to restart and do the whole thing again, which feels bad.
Three, if you could make the range from which you can pick up the magnet bigger, and increase the speed of the character in the hub(maybe add a sprint mechanic, it feels horrible to open the wrong level and having to walk in all again), I thing it will greatly improve the feel of the game.
Amazing demo, I enjoyed it a lot. I can see a lot of work has gone into this, and enjoy the animations and overall gameplay feels great.
One thing I did notice I was consistently doing, which might be a me problem, is forgetting to pick up old friend magnet at the start... especially in the hub level for some reason. I feel like it would be helpful if the magnet spawned in front of the player and called out to be picked up a little more. I almost imagine a little voice saying "hey don't forget your ol pal Nate!" (does the little helper have a name?) ... I appreciate its not always in reach every level from the start, so some kind of call out might also help draw the player's attention over to it, as it really feels like your friend and you feel almost naked without it.
I can't wait to play more of it, thanks for sharing and the fantastic video series!
Just watched your whole series today and learned a lot, great work! because of your hard work I wanted to try your latest and used itch.io for the first time ever!
Once I rebound the controls to things I felt more accustomed too I had a blast. The only two pieces of feedback that I have are:
-The tutorial has us use the mechanic of throwing the magnet into the pipe but the use of pipes disappeared on the other levels (obviously except on the transition menu).
-Since you poured time into the character dev of the magnet and the previous comment of not throwing the magnet into the pipes at the conclusion of a level it honestly felt a little sad to leave the magnet friend behind on levels. I think the robot and magnet are a pair based on your work and leaving the magnet behind seemed off.
Thanks for sharing your game! I haven't had a chance to play the v1.2 version, so my feedback may have less context.
Overall, I enjoyed the experience, but it was difficult for me to control aiming. Have you considering a control scheme that would allow for moving and aiming at the same time?
Additionally, I was slightly frustrated by the 2nd to last level because I found myself often getting stuck in positions that forced me to restart the level manually (this occur less often in the other levels).
Thanks so much for sharing your development experiences on Youtube and I wish you the best of luck on your continued development.
If you ever need another Unity developer's input on a specific problem, feel free to reach out to me on Twitter @GamingGameDev :D
Hey Mark it's a really wonderful game and I want to say that now there is a speedrun leaderboard for the game https://www.speedrun.com/umg welcome for anyone to join :)
Although puzzle games aren't really my thing, but I was still amazed by the level design, especially the last level, where I had to use the magnet and activate the door from a distance, stopping the block from going up and blocking my path. I bet a lot of effort went into that one.
Also the game just feels satisfying, with the new platforming system and screen shake effects. The settings helped me a lot with remapping keys, which really enhanced my experience.
Awesome work, Mark!
(By the way, it would be nice to implement some dual-purpose design, like mentioned in earlier episodes of Developing, like, when holding the magnet, walkspeed and jumpheight is reduced. I guess this could also make some new puzzles, where the catch is that the player couldn't jump across a large gap while holding the magnet. )
Hello! Fun game and puzzles, very satisfying to solve the later puzzles. Wish I could replay levels, and there are some levels that resulted in a lot of softlocks, but that may have actually made finding the solution that much more satisfying.
At first I tried it with keyboard and mouse and it felt terrible. Jumping and magnet throwing were really hard, and I couldn't figure out what to do. I did 2 or three levels like that. I switched to Xbox controller and suddenly it was like I was a much better player! I went through the first few levels really fast! The last few levels required more time and thought. I liked that I could go out and try a different level and come back. The last level was especially tricky but solving it felt good!
There were a couple places where I got stuck, like in the button pit in the last level. It's good that it's obvious how to restart the level, but I wonder if a ladder could be added there to make a smoother experience.
It was not obvious to me how to access the options using the XBox controller. It took a minute of fiddling.
I appreciate the colour and accessibility options!
My assumption about the restart button is that you have to hold it down because you don't want to press it by accident. It'll be good later on when I imagine there'll be an animation showing your progress toward restarting.
(Oh dear I just realized I was supposed to aim with the mouse. That's probably why I had such a hard time lol.)
Like someone else said, I also didn't realize for a while that the magnet could go through the bar.
It certainly has potential! The controls feel pretty good, level design is alright - I especially like level 5, it definitely had that "a-ha!" moment for me. The last level felt a little too confusing for my liking, the solution didn't feel like it was the intended one, maybe because the magnet door was just barely enough to stop the falling block. The option to change the colour of magnets was much appreciated!
All in all, I feel like with a story of some kind to keep the player engaged this should prove to be an enjoyable experience. Thanks for sharing the demo!
The character overall feels pretty good to control. The magnets throw and changing feature works pretty well too but it did feel clunky at times.
I also noticed that some inputs don't respond very well. The restart button stood out as needing two presses most times.
Speaking of reset I noticed that there was a number of levels where you could get yourself stuck quite easily and have to reset in order to try again. This feels counter intuitive as the levels are puzzles asking you to take in all the elements and try different solutions. I understand this is probably due to these being test levels but its something to keep in mind.
Other than that I really enjoyed playing your game and look forward to seeing what you do in the future.
We really enjoyed the game! Challenging and felt satisfying when the solution was found.
We felt the character moved a bit slow especially on repeat tries, and the aiming felt a little difficult to line up exactly where we wanted it to point at times. Not difficult to do so, just a bit clunky.
Really enjoyed the animations, and art style of the characters. Thanks for letting us play!
Great demo Mark! The character feels great to control, I found myself wanting a little bit of a higher top speed on him. But the start/stop and jumping feels really good.
I didn't quite understand the rules around what I could throw the magnet through and what I couldn't (also what I could throw the magnet through vs jump through myself). These screenshots show 2 throws which have different outcomes (the top one being that the magnet goes straight through the barrier, while in the second one it bounces off the thicker barrier). Maybe an idea would be to stop displaying the arc of dots beyond the impassible barrier?
The last level is very unintuitive and I'm not even sure that the way I did it is correct. I basically raised the giant block shot the magnet through the tiny gap to try to get it to land in the little pit where the block is to prevent it from hitting the button so I could jump across and get the key. The problem with this is that sometimes, the magnet hitbox is too large and doesn't go through the hole or doesn't get into the right spot because it requires a really precise angle.
So not sure if you know this or not but you can do a weird double jump with the magnet. Basically aim the magnet straight up and spam jump and throw and sometimes after catching/throwing the magnet the jump will twice the height. I couldn't get it consistent but thought that'd be a bug you'd want to be aware of if you weren't already.
Very interresting game :-) I can see lots of potential. I think the robot is cool.
Here are my remarks :
* you should put numbers on level, so it's easier to give you our feedback on specific level
* For the control, in the begining, I had my right hand on the arrows and my left hand on the "F" and "E" keys, so I didn't understand how to aim (because I didn't use the mouse). In the tutorial, you should say "aim with the mouse".
* A option could be move the robot with A, D and aim with the arrows ?
* I changed the jump to W because I find it easier. And maybe down arrow or S to cancel a throw
* I tried to replay a level, and as there is no more key, there is no more way to exit the level. Maybe put a "ghost" key ? Or put an exit door or a teleporter in the same place as the key ? In fact, I think a teleporter should be great at the end of each level because now, we don't know how we did to get back to the hub ;-)
* In Level 5 there is a magnet attached to a block with a chain. I found the chain very bouncy and not in a realistic way. It a good thing the the blocks and the magnet bounce a little, but they should do it accordinly to each other. For the moment, it's more like they are attached with soft rubber instead of a chain.
* For me, there should be no red or blue smoke when we throw the magnet. The smoke for the wheel of the robot makes sense, we lift up some dust while rolling, but where the smoke from the magnet come from ?
* In the last level, I have found the solultion, put every thing in it's place, the path to the key is open, but I fall in the whole under the magnet and I cannot jump to the left plateform. I had to get the magnet back to reset everything. While letting me jump to that plateform wouldn't have change anything to the puzzle or the difficulty of the level. I was juste annoyingly stuck down there.
Cool puzzles. Mainly the last one. It gave me a while but I feel accomplished after solving it. Different possibilities came to my mind but after trying it execute it was clearly not it (like the fact that the magnet is not a solid object and can't hold the box over the button). Last puzzle is definitely my favourite.
Only problem I had was in the first level where I didn't know that magnets can go through the metal bar. I felt a little bit cheated. It would be maybe good idea to introduce them in the introduction level too.
Second paragraph is the English version of the first.(๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧ 在不需要用钥匙解锁的最后一关中，在已经把磁铁放在右侧的高台的情况下没有办法跳上左侧的高台，这种情况下似乎只能重置关卡。这种情况是因为磁铁和装置触碰时更改+/—没有使装置正常运作。总体来说游戏还不错，可以把难度再提高些，每一关做得更大些，再加上音效，音乐就更好了。 In the last level, which doesn't require a key to unlock, there is no way to jump on the high platform on the left when the magnet has been placed on the platform on the right, which seems the only way is to reset the level. This happens because changing +/- does not make the device work properly when the magnet and the device are touching . Overall the game is very funny, the difficulty could be increased a bit, each level could be bigger, it would be even better if it was accompanied by sound effects and music.
Great feel on the character mark, 2 main things though. Most of the levels aside from the last one were a bit too easy to simply do the obvious thing and solve the puzzles without really thinking .In the last level there's some inconsistency in the rules where you can use the magnet to block the big moving magnet but it gets squashed when you place it under the block that's attached to the chain.
I don't have much to say (but I am someone who thinks that then ends up writing an essay-like comment), but I do want to put forth my thoughts.
Fresh in my mind right now is the "last level" (the level closest to the "exit" or number locked door): this sumped me. I felt like I breezed through all the others (such that I only remember at least one other). I had to "see" how others solved it. I saw the problem but just could not see a good solution. I kept wanting to throw my magnet friend to hit the switch. Then I tried to race gravity. I saw a possibility of using Mag-Friend to block big blue/negative block from hitting to button (and later noticed that someone else did exactly that), but that felt like that was cruel to Mag-Friend and not what you intended. As I skimmed this comment section, I did find a comment that pointed to a better solution of using the swing door.
My "block" of text above shows that the last level seems like a significant step up from the others. I don't know how or why, but I feel that there were no connective lessons from the previous level(s) that adequately prepared me for that last one.
While the hub idea is a good concept, gating the player at critical points helps ensure you, the designer, know the player has the base of skills and knowledge needed to do "the thing." Baba is You does this well (in its cruel way).
Another thing that struck me was the nature of the relationship between the player and Mag-Friend. Especially with the levels just ending once you got the key, I felt I was using Mag-Friend as if they did not have a face. I don't have any solutions except some story reasons that justify that relationship dynamic. (Or I'm overthinking all that in some way.)
Otherwise, the visuals are clean and clear about what is going on. I was not too fond of the parallax effect in the hub. ... Other than that; I like the style you got here.
As I thought I would, I made an essay of a comment. Thank you for reading this, and I hope it helps.
PS: I should mention that I exclusively used my Xbox One controller to play the game. I did not feel the need to change any of the settings.
I honest to goodness didn't realize I needed to use my mouse to aim the throw. Perhaps adding that to the tutorial level's button/action popups could help.
Also any placeholder sounds would help I think, just to line up with actions. I felt a bit disconnected from the game without sounds.
Unfortunately, I'm running into graphical problems with V2.0. I have a nonstandard monitor resolution (1280x1024), which cuts off the edges of the screen. If you could add a way to adjust resolution, that would be handy.
I've only done one puzzle so far (the rightmost one) but I think V2.0 is a big improvement! Movement is much more fluid and I love how bouncy and expressive the character is, especially giving the magnet a face. I also think that throwing the magnet into the pipes to open doors is really neat, and helps explain how the magnet travels with you.
One thing is that I find the level reset a little clunky. It only draws a black bar across the middle of the screen, rather than the whole window. At first I thought it was opening a menu. (This might be due to the aforementioned resolution issue, I'm not sure.)
Very fun challenging puzzles. I do think the control defaults could use some work. In my opinion, W for jump and Q for polarization is more for comfortable than the defaults.
This was genuinely really fun. Great graphics and character, the levels are mostly quite simple but as you mentioned in your video they're only for testing so they could easily be made more complicated or used as early levels.
Bar the last one, that one was a nice head scratcher and I think if you tighten the space under the large block so that the magnet can't be forced in it would make for more of a challenge and force people to work out the puzzle based on purely game mechanics.
Finishing a level by grabbing a key only felt ok. What if you needed to move to a particular spot after getting the key? This opens up possibilities where you have to leave the magnet somewhere in order to reach the key (as in the last puzzle) but then once you have the key, there's a further challenge of how to get the magnet back in order to leave the level. Or might even allow for a Metroid Dread-esque level development where one puzzle could in fat be a way to open the door to other puzzles, perhaps by having multiple areas of a puzzle with their own magnets, some of which are only reachable by manouvering other magnets.
On the last level, I understand a lot of people jammed the magnet under the large block and I'll admit I did try that too but the game overall doesn't feel like the sort of game that wants you to do that sort of thing so I kept looking, I tried launching the magnet at the switch by perfectly timing a polarity reversal in order to use the the upward magnetic stream to give the magnet extra height an make it go farther which seemed like it could be a fun thing for other levels but again was far too difficult with this level so eventually I figured out the solution of having the door hold up the block until I was right next to it, giving me time to move past the second block before it dropped -which did fill me with a bit of panic the it might kill me for being to slow and reset the level.
Overall some really impressive work and a truely enjoyable game.
Hi Mark, I loved the game - the graphics were splendid, the puzzles were challenging and the character felt great to control. I did have a few thoughts however:
-As other people have said: many of the puzzles feel quite cluttered and it is difficult to understand what is going on in a level before you actually try to interact with it. I have a couple of suggestions that could help:
-Colour code the wires - you could use the same accessibility settings as you did with changing the polarity colours for the wire colours as well
-Try to keep the puzzles on one screen that doesn't move, I found that I felt a little overwhelmed when the camera started to scroll
- Also, I'm not sure how well this would translate to your game but I found myself sometimes wanting a Baba Is You-like rewind as occasionally I would press the wrong button and have to restart the level because I threw the magnet somewhere where I couldn't get it or I accidentally messed something up. This is just something I thought might be handy.
-As for bugs, I didn't find any except in the "Thanks for Playing" screen, if you press and hold the restart level button then the restart icon just appears from the corner and slowly gets bigger the longer you press it and then disappears when you let go -- A clip is attached demonstrating this
-Lastly, (this is also to do with the restart level button ). I am hopeless when it comes to remembering what button does what in video games so I found myself randomly accidentally restarting the level, it might be nice to have to press and hold the restart button and this could be accompanied by a little animation on the restart button - maybe something similar to this : Reset Animation Idea
This bind makes you control the robot with one hand and the magnet to the other. You can now struggling with the new cool puzzle instead of struggling with the control of the game.
LMB for Aim is by default, but the game is loudly suggesting you to use the keyboard on the tutorial, the HUD and with the windows- basic mouse skin.
Great job Mark, these mechanics can build plenty of cool advanced levels and good luck for the next part
Hey Mark, this is quite impressive, especially for someone's first proper game. Here are a few things I noticed: - The visuals are appealing and clean, which help to make the different puzzle rooms readable.
- Despite that, I felt the puzzle layouts were more complex and visually busy than they needed to be. Crisscrossing wires and pulleys make the rooms more difficult to parse, making me have to spend more time thinking "how is this room setup exactly?" before I can start trying to formulate potential solutions.
- I felt like the puzzles overall weren't quite hitting that sweet spot for "eureka" moments. I didn't feel like I was uncovering fundamentals of the systems usually, just reasons why the level was laid out the way it was or why the systems work the way they do (the magnet being able to pass through the one-way platforms felt confusing to me). Said another way, none of these puzzles felt like the natural consequences of the systems, but more-so puzzles forced onto the systems.
- I had no issue with the controls, but my natural inclination with a 2D platformer is to use the D-Pad on my controller, but doing so made the aiming the magnet toss awkward. Switching to use the control stick ended up being totally fine, however.
- I was confused for a second when grabbing the key immediately ended the level; I didn't expect that for some reason. Also, replaying an already completed level won't end naturally because there isn't a key to collect. Going to the pause menu and going back to the hub works perfectly fine, but having key outline or something to collect (a la the stars in Super Mario 64) would be very nice.
- I don't think I figured out how to solve the last puzzle correctly. I solved by precisely tossing the magnet to fit under the big minus block so that it could be in the down state (and thus not blocking the way) but not pressing the button since the magnet was in the way. This did not feel like the intended method of solving the puzzle, but I wasn't seeing any other way.
- The magnet deleting tractor beam area seemed odd. I couldn't tell what it was until I tried bringing the magnet past it. I can understand the desire to have a tool in your toolbelt to prevent the magnet from going in a particular areas, but it felt more like a cudgel solution, so a more elegant solution might be out there.
Thanks so much for making this game and this excellent series. I hope this feedback is helpful~
You have made a good start and I look forward to more. Most of my suggestions are for things you've already addressed in your logs.
If you are set on the hub idea with door entrances to levels, then I suggest a door at the end of each level that only opens after the key is acquired. This door could next to the key or in a different (hard to reach) location for multilayered levels, and then going through the exit would open back to the hub for a smooth transition.
Glad to play your game, thank you, for that experience.
Perhaps I found a loophole to pass the last level. I was able to block the "minus" square platform with a small magnet model by throwing it through the small hole under the platform on the right side when it was up, so i kept the button unpressed.
I really like this game and showed it to my daughter who is 8. She thoroughly enjoyed it and wants to play more levels. Apart from the critics and everything can always be improved, I think you have something here esp. the character, magnet and puzzles. We would buy it if you made it into a released game. You have a fan waiting for more levels :-).
Great game, absolutely love the concept. Some constructive feedback:
The options menu needs a clickable back button to exit, there's currently no visual to show how to leave the menu, and using the mouse to enter and a keyboard to leave isn't the most intuitive system.
Obviously, this is a demo, but would be nice to have fullscreen as an option in the window itself instead of just the starting menu.
Unsure if it's designed for future level development, but why not have the magnet auto-pick up when the player moves over it? having to click every time seems more tedious than anything.
Levels 1/2 maybe switched around positions? I think 2 has a simpler concept.
I love the player animations, (A old school robot who isn't affected by the magnets is very good. Could play with the idea of the magnets getting stuck or messing with its circuitry)
I think the jump reach feels wrong because the height of the level can make it feel like the player should be jumping higher, maybe increase the size of everything and zoom the camera in a little bit, this could help remove that aspect.
I would suggest a button for the user to call back the magnet, it can be tedious to go and find the magnet again if you have moved around the level. when the user presses 'c' for example, the magnet could fly back to the user.
Overall a great game demo, far more fleshed out than some demos I have played and with a very exciting concept, can't wait to see the next iteration
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Thanks for let us playing your game, there are really great stuff in there, I have a couple of feedbacks:
1. Obviously the puzzles are just first draft of ideas and are unpolished and I'm sure that you are aware of it but since it is really important I mention it again that the levels shouldn't be in a way that a tiny mistake would cost you to use retry button. for example the structure of the rotating doors are is a way that would easily make you left behind the door even with the magnet in hand and of course if you lose the magnet in some part of the level then most likely you have to reset the level. there are for sure a couple of solutions for this and I'm sure you will find the best one for each level.
2. this one isn't critical but I think finishing the level by finding the key is a little bit anticlimactic because you would expect to use the key in the level itself not using it in the hub area.
3. if the hub area is going to be like this in the actual game I would expect to use r2 to sprint for better feeling at navigation.
4. I understand why you choose the approach that for opening the doors in the hub player needs to use the magnet but I think it is annoying and I don't like it.
5. I like that the level are designed in a way that you don't need to use timing or accuracy for throwing the magnet and I think it is really important to keep it that way through the rest of the game.
6. the above point should be the case for platforming as well. for example I don't know why the gap in the last level (between the magnetic field) is in a way that it is hard to jump from side to side.
Keep up the great work Mark!
Hey, overall a great gaming experience, the graphics look great and with sound it's sure to be twice as good. The puzzles are a bit simple at times but it feels pretty good to complete them.
I think my comments are focused on the technical aspect and even they are details that are not polished because it is a demo, but I think that saying them out loud will help to take into account those small details while the final version is being developed.
- in hub the reload icon grow indefinitely when pressing the reload key.
- The aim goes behind some element (hub doors as example), i think it should be always in front of all other elements (stoping in walls and collision objects of course).
- option 'show icons on magnets and fields' only applied to magnet not fo the icons flowing in the magnetic zones
- if the game is already set in fullscreen, when exit the game and start again it will start in fullscreen and the 'fullscreen' button will toggle to window instead of fullscreen.
- You can pass the magnet through the area without magnets if:
1. you leave the magnet just on the outer edge of the area without magnets.
2. You put the character right on the inner edge of the area without magnets.
3. Take the magnet and throw it as fast as possible before the zone makes it disappear.
- From a personal point of view I feel that the design of the tubes is a bit out of place with the industrial/metallic environment, maybe metal tubes would be more in line.
- The character moves well but I think that the possibility of "running" would improve the experience, especially when you get stuck in a level and have to do everything again.
You are doing an excelent job!
The game felt very responsive! All the little effects, particles, feedback (like the arrow when we are close enough to pick up the magnet) makes the game feel very intuitive.
My only critic on your design are the ramps: they looked too much like shadows and I often forgot they were there, assuming they were steps. Why not take away the steps where there are ramps, are have the ramps in a clearer colour?
Also why has - what I call the magnet destroyer - a red smiler face? At the beginning, I thought it only destroyed the positive/red magnet. I thought that was a bit confusing.
Apart from those tiny details, the levels were good! The environment is simple enough for the solution to be clear when I did find them. The last two levels were particularly great and got me scratching my head. Your mechanics are so cool I was starting to imagine levels for your game myself.
You can watch my walkthrough here for my full reactions:
While I am at it, thank you for your work on your YouTube channel: it got me to appreciate games on such a higher level!
Nice game. There's definitely the beginning of something here.
The parallax effect with the background in the level hub feels a bit weird.
In the puzzle levels, the background feels like it's a "wall", like it's physically stuck to the platform bits and you're moving in a small room.
Having the background look exactly the same but behave differently in the hub feels just weird. Also, it makes the doors feels less like doors in the wall and more like magic video game portals. (since they're not anchored in anything)
Otherwise, nice game, good game feel, okay puzzles. Most of them took me two "tries" before I figured out the solution, there was no puzzle where I just blasted through without thinking.
The new character design is so nice! Just moving around and jumping felt good, I had a fun time just zooming around in the "Thanks for playing" room. One thing that might be nice to incorporate in the future is a sprint button, something such as holding down shift to activate a faster movement speed.
This demo evoked the feeling of a puzzle game well. There were quite a few moments where I entered a room and was just feeling "what". I enjoyed experimenting with what did and didn't work. One thing I found a problem with was how often I had to reset a room because I became soft-locked. It did remind me a bit of Baba is You in that regard though.
There was one room in which you had to throw the magnet through a bar, I felt that the bar was designed in a way that looked impassable and so was a bit confused why the magnet could be tossed over.
Overall this was fun to play! Thank you for your hard work!!
The characters and levels have a good feel. Something very satisfying about the way the robots' wheel turns, especially when he's on hanging from his magnet.
I really enjoyed the last two levels. They were frustrating at first but it was very fun to have that sudden realisation that makes the whole thing come together and allows you to sail back to get the key.
When you do bring in sound design etc, it will be important to make it very satisfying to pick up a key (in the same way that its satisfying to get an item from a chest in Ocarania of Time) as the player sometimes has to work quite hard to get it.
I had two main challenges.
Number 1 - At first, I kept throwing the magnet when I meant to pick it up, for some reason I just hold down the E key to pick up the magnet. I then find that I'm in the throwing mechanic, and there doesn't seem to be a way to cancel out of that.
Number 2 - There were lots of times when I had to restart a level because I was stuck. This didn't feel too bad as the levels are quite short. That meant it didn't feel like a drag to get back to where I was. Would be more of a problem if it happened on a longer level, though.
Very nice game, great feel and cool levels.
Some things to note:
One, with the doors the open switch sides when you get close, if you the instantly change your direction, the gate doesn't register that and you need to go back and then return for it to work.
Two, in levels 5 and 6, if you get stuck, by falling to a hole or just opening the screws in a different order, you can't easily go back and you have to restart and do the whole thing again, which feels bad.
Three, if you could make the range from which you can pick up the magnet bigger, and increase the speed of the character in the hub(maybe add a sprint mechanic, it feels horrible to open the wrong level and having to walk in all again), I thing it will greatly improve the feel of the game.
Waiting to see how the game will evolve!
an undo button that just takes you back in time to the last time you did something would be nice
Amazing demo, I enjoyed it a lot. I can see a lot of work has gone into this, and enjoy the animations and overall gameplay feels great.
One thing I did notice I was consistently doing, which might be a me problem, is forgetting to pick up old friend magnet at the start... especially in the hub level for some reason. I feel like it would be helpful if the magnet spawned in front of the player and called out to be picked up a little more. I almost imagine a little voice saying "hey don't forget your ol pal Nate!" (does the little helper have a name?) ... I appreciate its not always in reach every level from the start, so some kind of call out might also help draw the player's attention over to it, as it really feels like your friend and you feel almost naked without it.
I can't wait to play more of it, thanks for sharing and the fantastic video series!
-Chips
Just watched your whole series today and learned a lot, great work! because of your hard work I wanted to try your latest and used itch.io for the first time ever!
Once I rebound the controls to things I felt more accustomed too I had a blast. The only two pieces of feedback that I have are:
-The tutorial has us use the mechanic of throwing the magnet into the pipe but the use of pipes disappeared on the other levels (obviously except on the transition menu).
-Since you poured time into the character dev of the magnet and the previous comment of not throwing the magnet into the pipes at the conclusion of a level it honestly felt a little sad to leave the magnet friend behind on levels. I think the robot and magnet are a pair based on your work and leaving the magnet behind seemed off.
Keep up the great work!
Hey Mark,
Thanks for sharing your game! I haven't had a chance to play the v1.2 version, so my feedback may have less context.
Overall, I enjoyed the experience, but it was difficult for me to control aiming. Have you considering a control scheme that would allow for moving and aiming at the same time?
Additionally, I was slightly frustrated by the 2nd to last level because I found myself often getting stuck in positions that forced me to restart the level manually (this occur less often in the other levels).
Thanks so much for sharing your development experiences on Youtube and I wish you the best of luck on your continued development.
If you ever need another Unity developer's input on a specific problem, feel free to reach out to me on Twitter @GamingGameDev :D
~GamingGameDev
Hey Mark
it's a really wonderful game
and I want to say that now there is a speedrun leaderboard for the game
https://www.speedrun.com/umg
welcome for anyone to join :)
Really cool and fun! Had a cool "AHA!" moment with the last level ((:
I had a WONDERFUL time playing this!
Although puzzle games aren't really my thing, but I was still amazed by the level design, especially the last level, where I had to use the magnet and activate the door from a distance, stopping the block from going up and blocking my path. I bet a lot of effort went into that one.
Also the game just feels satisfying, with the new platforming system and screen shake effects. The settings helped me a lot with remapping keys, which really enhanced my experience.
Awesome work, Mark!
(By the way, it would be nice to implement some dual-purpose design, like mentioned in earlier episodes of Developing, like, when holding the magnet, walkspeed and jumpheight is reduced. I guess this could also make some new puzzles, where the catch is that the player couldn't jump across a large gap while holding the magnet. )
Hello! Fun game and puzzles, very satisfying to solve the later puzzles. Wish I could replay levels, and there are some levels that resulted in a lot of softlocks, but that may have actually made finding the solution that much more satisfying.
Wow, i already thought the past version was nice, this one looks twice as good <3
Imagine it with sounds *w* ...
As soon as i finish it, i'll let my feedback.
Just finished Windows version 2.0! It was fun!
At first I tried it with keyboard and mouse and it felt terrible. Jumping and magnet throwing were really hard, and I couldn't figure out what to do. I did 2 or three levels like that. I switched to Xbox controller and suddenly it was like I was a much better player! I went through the first few levels really fast! The last few levels required more time and thought. I liked that I could go out and try a different level and come back. The last level was especially tricky but solving it felt good!
There were a couple places where I got stuck, like in the button pit in the last level. It's good that it's obvious how to restart the level, but I wonder if a ladder could be added there to make a smoother experience.
It was not obvious to me how to access the options using the XBox controller. It took a minute of fiddling.
I appreciate the colour and accessibility options!
My assumption about the restart button is that you have to hold it down because you don't want to press it by accident. It'll be good later on when I imagine there'll be an animation showing your progress toward restarting.
(Oh dear I just realized I was supposed to aim with the mouse. That's probably why I had such a hard time lol.)
Like someone else said, I also didn't realize for a while that the magnet could go through the bar.
Great work! Looking forward to more!
It certainly has potential! The controls feel pretty good, level design is alright - I especially like level 5, it definitely had that "a-ha!" moment for me. The last level felt a little too confusing for my liking, the solution didn't feel like it was the intended one, maybe because the magnet door was just barely enough to stop the falling block. The option to change the colour of magnets was much appreciated!
All in all, I feel like with a story of some kind to keep the player engaged this should prove to be an enjoyable experience. Thanks for sharing the demo!
Hi Mark,
Great Demo.
I think the game looks good.
The character overall feels pretty good to control. The magnets throw and changing feature works pretty well too but it did feel clunky at times.
I also noticed that some inputs don't respond very well. The restart button stood out as needing two presses most times.
Speaking of reset I noticed that there was a number of levels where you could get yourself stuck quite easily and have to reset in order to try again. This feels counter intuitive as the levels are puzzles asking you to take in all the elements and try different solutions. I understand this is probably due to these being test levels but its something to keep in mind.
Other than that I really enjoyed playing your game and look forward to seeing what you do in the future.
Thanks,
Hi Mark,
We really enjoyed the game! Challenging and felt satisfying when the solution was found.
We felt the character moved a bit slow especially on repeat tries, and the aiming felt a little difficult to line up exactly where we wanted it to point at times. Not difficult to do so, just a bit clunky.
Really enjoyed the animations, and art style of the characters. Thanks for letting us play!
Great demo Mark! The character feels great to control, I found myself wanting a little bit of a higher top speed on him. But the start/stop and jumping feels really good.
I didn't quite understand the rules around what I could throw the magnet through and what I couldn't (also what I could throw the magnet through vs jump through myself). These screenshots show 2 throws which have different outcomes (the top one being that the magnet goes straight through the barrier, while in the second one it bounces off the thicker barrier). Maybe an idea would be to stop displaying the arc of dots beyond the impassible barrier?
https://imgur.com/a/SCiraSf
https://imgur.com/a/9VFjfkK
Can't wait to see what's next for this! Looking forward to it
The last level is very unintuitive and I'm not even sure that the way I did it is correct. I basically raised the giant block shot the magnet through the tiny gap to try to get it to land in the little pit where the block is to prevent it from hitting the button so I could jump across and get the key. The problem with this is that sometimes, the magnet hitbox is too large and doesn't go through the hole or doesn't get into the right spot because it requires a really precise angle.
Can you put the platformer level with the cool jumps in it that you mentioned here as a bonus level?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eE05LjNNenQ?t=556
So not sure if you know this or not but you can do a weird double jump with the magnet. Basically aim the magnet straight up and spam jump and throw and sometimes after catching/throwing the magnet the jump will twice the height. I couldn't get it consistent but thought that'd be a bug you'd want to be aware of if you weren't already.
Very interresting game :-) I can see lots of potential. I think the robot is cool.
Here are my remarks :
* you should put numbers on level, so it's easier to give you our feedback on specific level
* For the control, in the begining, I had my right hand on the arrows and my left hand on the "F" and "E" keys, so I didn't understand how to aim (because I didn't use the mouse). In the tutorial, you should say "aim with the mouse".
* A option could be move the robot with A, D and aim with the arrows ?
* I changed the jump to W because I find it easier. And maybe down arrow or S to cancel a throw
* I tried to replay a level, and as there is no more key, there is no more way to exit the level. Maybe put a "ghost" key ? Or put an exit door or a teleporter in the same place as the key ? In fact, I think a teleporter should be great at the end of each level because now, we don't know how we did to get back to the hub ;-)
* In Level 5 there is a magnet attached to a block with a chain. I found the chain very bouncy and not in a realistic way. It a good thing the the blocks and the magnet bounce a little, but they should do it accordinly to each other. For the moment, it's more like they are attached with soft rubber instead of a chain.
* For me, there should be no red or blue smoke when we throw the magnet. The smoke for the wheel of the robot makes sense, we lift up some dust while rolling, but where the smoke from the magnet come from ?
* In the last level, I have found the solultion, put every thing in it's place, the path to the key is open, but I fall in the whole under the magnet and I cannot jump to the left plateform. I had to get the magnet back to reset everything. While letting me jump to that plateform wouldn't have change anything to the puzzle or the difficulty of the level. I was juste annoyingly stuck down there.
Cool puzzles. Mainly the last one. It gave me a while but I feel accomplished after solving it. Different possibilities came to my mind but after trying it execute it was clearly not it (like the fact that the magnet is not a solid object and can't hold the box over the button). Last puzzle is definitely my favourite.
Only problem I had was in the first level where I didn't know that magnets can go through the metal bar. I felt a little bit cheated. It would be maybe good idea to introduce them in the introduction level too.
Second paragraph is the English version of the first.(๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧
在不需要用钥匙解锁的最后一关中，在已经把磁铁放在右侧的高台的情况下没有办法跳上左侧的高台，这种情况下似乎只能重置关卡。这种情况是因为磁铁和装置触碰时更改+/—没有使装置正常运作。总体来说游戏还不错，可以把难度再提高些，每一关做得更大些，再加上音效，音乐就更好了。
In the last level, which doesn't require a key to unlock, there is no way to jump on the high platform on the left when the magnet has been placed on the platform on the right, which seems the only way is to reset the level. This happens because changing +/- does not make the device work properly when the magnet and the device are touching . Overall the game is very funny, the difficulty could be increased a bit, each level could be bigger, it would be even better if it was accompanied by sound effects and music.
Great feel on the character mark, 2 main things though. Most of the levels aside from the last one were a bit too easy to simply do the obvious thing and solve the puzzles without really thinking .In the last level there's some inconsistency in the rules where you can use the magnet to block the big moving magnet but it gets squashed when you place it under the block that's attached to the chain.
I don't have much to say (but I am someone who thinks that then ends up writing an essay-like comment), but I do want to put forth my thoughts.
Fresh in my mind right now is the "last level" (the level closest to the "exit" or number locked door): this sumped me. I felt like I breezed through all the others (such that I only remember at least one other). I had to "see" how others solved it. I saw the problem but just could not see a good solution. I kept wanting to throw my magnet friend to hit the switch. Then I tried to race gravity. I saw a possibility of using Mag-Friend to block big blue/negative block from hitting to button (and later noticed that someone else did exactly that), but that felt like that was cruel to Mag-Friend and not what you intended. As I skimmed this comment section, I did find a comment that pointed to a better solution of using the swing door.
My "block" of text above shows that the last level seems like a significant step up from the others. I don't know how or why, but I feel that there were no connective lessons from the previous level(s) that adequately prepared me for that last one.
While the hub idea is a good concept, gating the player at critical points helps ensure you, the designer, know the player has the base of skills and knowledge needed to do "the thing." Baba is You does this well (in its cruel way).
Another thing that struck me was the nature of the relationship between the player and Mag-Friend. Especially with the levels just ending once you got the key, I felt I was using Mag-Friend as if they did not have a face. I don't have any solutions except some story reasons that justify that relationship dynamic. (Or I'm overthinking all that in some way.)
Otherwise, the visuals are clean and clear about what is going on. I was not too fond of the parallax effect in the hub. ... Other than that; I like the style you got here.
As I thought I would, I made an essay of a comment. Thank you for reading this, and I hope it helps.
PS: I should mention that I exclusively used my Xbox One controller to play the game. I did not feel the need to change any of the settings.
A whole lot of fun, genuinely enjoyed it.
I honest to goodness didn't realize I needed to use my mouse to aim the throw. Perhaps adding that to the tutorial level's button/action popups could help.
Also any placeholder sounds would help I think, just to line up with actions. I felt a bit disconnected from the game without sounds.
Unfortunately, I'm running into graphical problems with V2.0. I have a nonstandard monitor resolution (1280x1024), which cuts off the edges of the screen. If you could add a way to adjust resolution, that would be handy.
I've only done one puzzle so far (the rightmost one) but I think V2.0 is a big improvement! Movement is much more fluid and I love how bouncy and expressive the character is, especially giving the magnet a face. I also think that throwing the magnet into the pipes to open doors is really neat, and helps explain how the magnet travels with you.
One thing is that I find the level reset a little clunky. It only draws a black bar across the middle of the screen, rather than the whole window. At first I thought it was opening a menu. (This might be due to the aforementioned resolution issue, I'm not sure.)
Very fun challenging puzzles. I do think the control defaults could use some work. In my opinion, W for jump and Q for polarization is more for comfortable than the defaults.
This was genuinely really fun. Great graphics and character, the levels are mostly quite simple but as you mentioned in your video they're only for testing so they could easily be made more complicated or used as early levels.
Bar the last one, that one was a nice head scratcher and I think if you tighten the space under the large block so that the magnet can't be forced in it would make for more of a challenge and force people to work out the puzzle based on purely game mechanics.
Finishing a level by grabbing a key only felt ok. What if you needed to move to a particular spot after getting the key? This opens up possibilities where you have to leave the magnet somewhere in order to reach the key (as in the last puzzle) but then once you have the key, there's a further challenge of how to get the magnet back in order to leave the level. Or might even allow for a Metroid Dread-esque level development where one puzzle could in fat be a way to open the door to other puzzles, perhaps by having multiple areas of a puzzle with their own magnets, some of which are only reachable by manouvering other magnets.
On the last level, I understand a lot of people jammed the magnet under the large block and I'll admit I did try that too but the game overall doesn't feel like the sort of game that wants you to do that sort of thing so I kept looking, I tried launching the magnet at the switch by perfectly timing a polarity reversal in order to use the the upward magnetic stream to give the magnet extra height an make it go farther which seemed like it could be a fun thing for other levels but again was far too difficult with this level so eventually I figured out the solution of having the door hold up the block until I was right next to it, giving me time to move past the second block before it dropped -which did fill me with a bit of panic the it might kill me for being to slow and reset the level.
Overall some really impressive work and a truely enjoyable game.
Hi Mark, I loved the game - the graphics were splendid, the puzzles were challenging and the character felt great to control. I did have a few thoughts however:
-As other people have said: many of the puzzles feel quite cluttered and it is difficult to understand what is going on in a level before you actually try to interact with it. I have a couple of suggestions that could help:
-Colour code the wires - you could use the same accessibility settings as you did with changing the polarity colours for the wire colours as well
-Try to keep the puzzles on one screen that doesn't move, I found that I felt a little overwhelmed when the camera started to scroll
- Also, I'm not sure how well this would translate to your game but I found myself sometimes wanting a Baba Is You-like rewind as occasionally I would press the wrong button and have to restart the level because I threw the magnet somewhere where I couldn't get it or I accidentally messed something up. This is just something I thought might be handy.
-As for bugs, I didn't find any except in the "Thanks for Playing" screen, if you press and hold the restart level button then the restart icon just appears from the corner and slowly gets bigger the longer you press it and then disappears when you let go -- A clip is attached demonstrating this
-Lastly, (this is also to do with the restart level button ). I am hopeless when it comes to remembering what button does what in video games so I found myself randomly accidentally restarting the level, it might be nice to have to press and hold the restart button and this could be accompanied by a little animation on the restart button - maybe something similar to this : Reset Animation Idea
PLEASE TRY THIS BIND IF USING MOUSE/KEYBOARD
Aim/Pick up :
E->LMBSwitch Magnet :
F-> RMBCancel Aim :
Q-> FThis bind makes you control the robot with one hand and the magnet to the other. You can now struggling with the new cool puzzle instead of struggling with the control of the game.
LMB for Aim is by default, but the game is loudly suggesting you to use the keyboard on the tutorial, the HUD and with the windows- basic mouse skin.
Great job Mark, these mechanics can build plenty of cool advanced levels and good luck for the next part
(sorry for my english)
Hey Mark, this is quite impressive, especially for someone's first proper game. Here are a few things I noticed:
- The visuals are appealing and clean, which help to make the different puzzle rooms readable.
- Despite that, I felt the puzzle layouts were more complex and visually busy than they needed to be. Crisscrossing wires and pulleys make the rooms more difficult to parse, making me have to spend more time thinking "how is this room setup exactly?" before I can start trying to formulate potential solutions.
- I felt like the puzzles overall weren't quite hitting that sweet spot for "eureka" moments. I didn't feel like I was uncovering fundamentals of the systems usually, just reasons why the level was laid out the way it was or why the systems work the way they do (the magnet being able to pass through the one-way platforms felt confusing to me). Said another way, none of these puzzles felt like the natural consequences of the systems, but more-so puzzles forced onto the systems.
- I had no issue with the controls, but my natural inclination with a 2D platformer is to use the D-Pad on my controller, but doing so made the aiming the magnet toss awkward. Switching to use the control stick ended up being totally fine, however.
- I was confused for a second when grabbing the key immediately ended the level; I didn't expect that for some reason. Also, replaying an already completed level won't end naturally because there isn't a key to collect. Going to the pause menu and going back to the hub works perfectly fine, but having key outline or something to collect (a la the stars in Super Mario 64) would be very nice.
- I don't think I figured out how to solve the last puzzle correctly. I solved by precisely tossing the magnet to fit under the big minus block so that it could be in the down state (and thus not blocking the way) but not pressing the button since the magnet was in the way. This did not feel like the intended method of solving the puzzle, but I wasn't seeing any other way.
- The magnet deleting tractor beam area seemed odd. I couldn't tell what it was until I tried bringing the magnet past it. I can understand the desire to have a tool in your toolbelt to prevent the magnet from going in a particular areas, but it felt more like a cudgel solution, so a more elegant solution might be out there.
Thanks so much for making this game and this excellent series. I hope this feedback is helpful~
You have made a good start and I look forward to more. Most of my suggestions are for things you've already addressed in your logs.
If you are set on the hub idea with door entrances to levels, then I suggest a door at the end of each level that only opens after the key is acquired. This door could next to the key or in a different (hard to reach) location for multilayered levels, and then going through the exit would open back to the hub for a smooth transition.
Just an idea, but thanks for the demo!
Hello!
Glad to play your game, thank you, for that experience.
Perhaps I found a loophole to pass the last level. I was able to block the "minus" square platform with a small magnet model by throwing it through the small hole under the platform on the right side when it was up, so i kept the button unpressed.
I really like this game and showed it to my daughter who is 8. She thoroughly enjoyed it and wants to play more levels. Apart from the critics and everything can always be improved, I think you have something here esp. the character, magnet and puzzles. We would buy it if you made it into a released game. You have a fan waiting for more levels :-).
Great game, absolutely love the concept. Some constructive feedback:
The options menu needs a clickable back button to exit, there's currently no visual to show how to leave the menu, and using the mouse to enter and a keyboard to leave isn't the most intuitive system.
Obviously, this is a demo, but would be nice to have fullscreen as an option in the window itself instead of just the starting menu.
Unsure if it's designed for future level development, but why not have the magnet auto-pick up when the player moves over it? having to click every time seems more tedious than anything.
Levels 1/2 maybe switched around positions? I think 2 has a simpler concept.
I love the player animations, (A old school robot who isn't affected by the magnets is very good. Could play with the idea of the magnets getting stuck or messing with its circuitry)
I think the jump reach feels wrong because the height of the level can make it feel like the player should be jumping higher, maybe increase the size of everything and zoom the camera in a little bit, this could help remove that aspect.
I would suggest a button for the user to call back the magnet, it can be tedious to go and find the magnet again if you have moved around the level. when the user presses 'c' for example, the magnet could fly back to the user.
Overall a great game demo, far more fleshed out than some demos I have played and with a very exciting concept, can't wait to see the next iteration